Emma Roddick infront of a lochside scene with a boat floating in the water and hills in the distance. She wears a black coat and looks at the camera.

Humanist Society interview series: Emma Roddick MSP on conversion practices

October 1, 2024

John Swinney recently shelved plans to criminalise conversion practices in Scotland, in spite of the water-tight bill drafted over many years by experts and LGBT+ Scots with lived experience of abuse. We spoke to former equalities minister Emma Roddick about why we need to end conversion practices now.

Hi Emma, please introduce yourself

My name is Emma Roddick, I’m an MSP for the Highlands and Islands and served as Minister for Equalities, Migration, and Refugees during Humza Yousaf’s time as first minister.

It was my privilege during that time to work with leading LGBTQ+ organisations across Scotland on finding the best way to ban “conversion practices”: harmful practices which seek to change or suppress someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity. We know this is not possible, but people still attempt to do it, often motivated by a belief that it is “wrong” to be lesbian, bisexual, gay, non-binary, or trans.

What did you learn during that time?

I heard from people with lived experience of surviving attempts by others to change who they are, and who they love. I was told by folk abused over long periods, or sent away for so-called “therapy,” how much of an impact this had had on their mental and physical health. These people re-lived their trauma in the hope that it would mean their abusers wouldn’t get away with doing it to anyone else in future.

When I explained what I was trying to prevent, people often reacted in horror, with an exclamation like ‘I can’t believe that’s not already illegal’.

What solution did you find for ending conversion practices?

We identified the need for a specific ban through the evidence gathered by the Parliament’s Equalities Committee. The committee heard from people who had undoubtedly been harmed by these practices but who struggled to get justice as their experiences weren’t captured by existing laws. Much of the behaviour described by survivors seemed like it could be captured by the Domestic Abuse Act. But the specificity of the relationship between perpetrator and victim means that people subjected to conversion practices often fall through the cracks. When I explained what I was trying to prevent, people often reacted in horror, with an exclamation like “I can’t believe that’s not already illegal.”

There is no excuse for attempting to force someone out of their gender identity or sexual orientation. Nobody could force me to be straight any more than they can force themselves to have been born in a different country. We know that people throughout modern history have made attempts regardless, and I’ve heard from the people directly harmed by that fact.

What other steps are needed, besides a new law?

Law change won’t solve this situation on its own. Along with the consultation on a ban came funding from the Scottish Government for a helpline aimed at supporting people who have experienced, or are at risk of, conversion practices. Supporting survivors is something we will need to continue to do long after a ban is in place. I believe that doing this publicly will lead to further awareness of the sad reality that LGBTQ+ people are still being persecuted in Scotland.

Nobody could force me to be straight any more than they can force themselves to have been born in a different country.

Can you explain why the bill has been paused?

The Scottish Government has announced a pause on its own legislation, seeking instead to allow the UK Government to legislate for a wider ban that covers Scotland instead. I urge anyone who wants to see a ban to push for this to be delivered as soon as possible, and in a way that covers as many of these practices as possible. Legislators in the UK and Scottish parliaments all need to understand the urgency of this situation. The painful contributions of survivors and those who’ve looked after them helped bring about a public consultation. Now those people deserve concrete action.

What are your hopes for the future?

We know that many perpetrators of conversion practices hold very strong beliefs about gay or trans people that will never go away. Pervasive stigma, hatred, and even ignorance, will drive people to do terrible things to others. Progress is slow, but it is worth fighting for. My hope is that a conversion practices ban, delivered by a majority of public representatives, would send a clear message that nobody has a need to change someone else, and nobody LGBTQ+ needs to change.

We have the ability to ban what most may believe should already be a criminal offence. Let’s get it done.

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